Cardinal Burke, the TLM, and What’s Really Going On?
Welcome to the Catholic Experience Podcast. I am the Catholic Adventurer. Thank you very much for joining me. I have some news and an announcement to share with you, but first, let me get down to the dirt, why you really tapped play. In this episode, I'm talking about Cardinal Burke having recently appealed to Pope Leo the fourteenth for a loosening of the restrictions on the traditional Latin mass.
Speaker 1:I thought that was pretty interesting, And I wanted to say a few things about that, what I think about it. But I also wanted to give you share with you my vast knowledge of church politics, and tell you what I think is really going on behind the curtain. Now it's my opinion. It's an informed opinion, but it's my opinion, so take it with a grain of salt. That's what this episode is about.
Speaker 1:Now quick little announcement. I swear I'm gonna be very, very quick. I've started a new section on my Substack and a new podcast called the live sessions. This, what you're about to hear, is actually was actually an episode of the live sessions. Let me explain that podcast to you because this might really interest you.
Speaker 1:I do a lot of lives, I find. I never intend to, but sometimes, you know, to kind of build engagement, to build my following on Instagram and TikTok, sometimes if I have something that's worthy of talking about, I'll go on real quick and do a live session on socials. Substack, Instagram, TikTok. I find I do those kind of frequently, but I don't wanna flood people with them. Okay?
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Speaker 1:There's no skipping. There's no chapters and so on and so on. And I think there's no background playback and so on. So what do I do? When I have something that's a little bit lengthy, pretty substantial, fun, interesting, whatever, and I have no place to put it.
Speaker 1:Can't put it on socials, can't put it on Substack because I don't wanna flood it, and I can't put it on Catholic Experience because I don't wanna flood that. What do I do? So this is the solution I came up with. I started a separate section slash podcast on my Substack called The Live Sessions. It is also available on iTunes and Spotify.
Speaker 1:All of those links are in this episode's description. The the Substack section, the iTunes link, and the Spotify link. The iTunes and Spotify are the only two platforms I've submitted it to, by the way. It may get picked up automatically by other platforms. I don't know.
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Speaker 1:God bless you, and God be with you. And now, what do I say at this point? On with the show. I wanna say hello and welcome to everybody catching me live. Lord, have mercy.
Speaker 1:Substack just blew up. Hello to Jerubaz I I'm sorry. Can't make out that name. And Rafael and Chris and Arsenius just joined me with Blaine here on Substack. Home base, Substack is, and I thank you all very much for joining me.
Speaker 1:I am simulcasting this also to Instagram. Okay? So this is gonna be quick. I just wanted to talk to you about what I found here, what I discovered, and hopefully this works this works for me. Alright.
Speaker 1:So check it out.
Speaker 2:Cardinal Burke let me read you the headline.
Speaker 1:Cardinal Burke appeals for restoration of the traditional Latin mass. And by the way, at the end of this, there's a little announcement I wanna make that I think is going to appeal to some of you, and some of you are just not going to care. But I'll save that for the bottom of this little broadcast. Cardinal Burke appears for appeals for restoration of a traditional Latin mass reported by Catholic news agency written by Christina Milare. Why do people at CNA have names I can't pronounce?
Speaker 1:Cardinal Burke said he asked Pope Leo the fourteenth to remove measures restricting the celebration of the traditional Latin Mass in dioceses. Excuse me. Burke spoke at a London conference organized by the Latin Mass Society of England and Wales, telling attendees that he hopes the new pontiff will quote put an end to the persecution of the Catholic faithful who want to celebrate Mass using the more ancient usage of the Roman liturgy. The Prefect Emeritus of the Apostolic Signatura and former patron of the Order of Malta was one of seven guest panelists invited to speak at the faith and culture conference held on June 14. Says the Catholic adventurer, okay.
Speaker 1:I'm down with that, end quote. So this is very interesting. I'm going to tell you my theory. I'm gonna tell you what I actually think is going on here. Unfortunately, I know a thing or two about church politics.
Speaker 1:I wish that I didn't, but I do. And so based on what I know about church politics, I'm gonna tell you what I strongly suspect is going on. What I think actually happened is someone poked Burke and said, Hey, if the traditional Latin mass restrictions that were put in place by Pope Francis are lifted, it's going to look like an assault on Pope Francis' legacy. You can't just lift them out of nowhere. But if there is an appeal, a reasoned and reasonable appeal by a notable, cardinal or any cardinal, then it would look like Pope Leo is simply acting in response to that appeal.
Speaker 1:And then it won't look like an assault against Pope Francis or his legacy or his decision to restrict the Latin Mass. That's what I think is really happening. Because folks, that actually goes on in the church. It's all about appearances many, many times. When we're talking about church governance, when we're talking about church governance, optics and appearances definitely on the table, very present in the mind of the hierarchy.
Speaker 1:Almost closed it by accident. So that's what I think is going on.
Speaker 2:Let's go back to the article and read a little more. Auxiliary
Speaker 1:Bishop Athanasius Schneider of Astana, Kazakhstan, pause.
Speaker 2:Is it just me, or does Bishop Schneider Schneider sound like Dracula?
Speaker 1:Be honest with yourselves. He sounds like Dracula. Have you ever heard him speak? I believe that the Latin Mass is ancient and should not be restricted. Ah, ah, ah, Come on.
Speaker 1:If you deny that he sounds like Dracula, then you've never heard him speak or you don't know what Dracula sounds like. Let's go back to it. I'm sorry for that breakaway. Auxiliary bishop Athanasius Snyder, ah ah ah, of Estonia, Kazakhstan, who has written extensively on the Eucharist and church tradition, also spoke at the weekend conference held to mark the sixtieth anniversary of The UK based society. Side note, folks, I don't know if you're familiar with this, the Latin Mass Society of England and Wales, but they're very active.
Speaker 1:I've done some reporting on them in the past. Very active. Not crazy. Not crazy. I would say I mean, I can't recall exactly the things that I've spoken on by them, but I recall them not being crazy and only disagreeing with one thing that they said or did.
Speaker 1:Probably stupid to even for me to even bring that up since I can't remember what it is to tell you about it. But they're very active. That's really the point I wanted to make. They're very active in this sort of thing, in Catholic tradition and restore a restoration of tradition and stuff like that. I certainly, quote, I certainly have already had occasion to express that to the holy father, Burke said via video link.
Speaker 1:It is my hope that he will, as soon as is reasonably possible, take up the study of this question, End quote. After the Second Vatican Council, Pope Paul the sixth promulgated the Novus Ordo Missae in 1969. This liturgy celebrated in the vernacular largely replaced the TLM and dioceses worldwide. During the conference, Burke expressed his desire for Pope Leo to overturn Francis twenty twenty one Traditiones Coustodes Modu Proprio and restore Benedict the sixteenth's 2,007 Summorum Pontificum. Quote, It is my hope, Burke said at the conference, that Leo will even continue to develop what Pope Benedict the sixteenth had so wisely and lovingly legislated for.
Speaker 1:Here's folks, if you're not familiar and welcome Emmanuel Smith joining me here on Substack. God bless you. I don't see much of you lately, Emmanuel Smith. Are you still posting here on Substack? I follow you and I subscribe to your thing, to your Substack, but I don't hardly see any of you lately.
Speaker 1:I don't know. If you don't know, I don't believe the Latin Mass should have been restricted. But I did agree with the holy father, Pope Francis, that there was a problem in the Latin Mass communities of the church. I do agree there. But I don't think it should have been restricted.
Speaker 1:I think it should have been left to local ordinaries to decide whether there was a problem in their own in their respective dioceses. Sorry. Getting a little feedback. To decide if there was a problem in their in their own dioceses, and to decide what, if anything, to do about it. It's possible that the holy father, Pope Francis, considered that,
Speaker 2:but concluded that local ordinaries probably wouldn't cooperate one way or the other. That's a possibility.
Speaker 1:Even with my headset on, I'm hearing the fans of my computer blowing like a hurricane, and I have never heard my fans go on. So now I'm wondering what the hell is going on that it's getting so stressed. Sorry about that breakaway. So I don't think it should have been restricted, but I see why he did it. Now let's go back to Benedict XVI's modi proprio.
Speaker 1:Again, that's that's not a misspeak. That's I mean, Benedict the sixteenth. Provided. I probably should have looked this up before. I have the moda proprio open in front of me, but it's very it's very long, and I don't have I don't wanna take the time to comb through it to find what I wanted to find to talk about.
Speaker 1:You'll just have to trust me on this one. Okay? Bennet the sixteenth, in his Moto Proprio Summorum Pontificum, freed up the Latin Mass for wider usage throughout the church. Priests, provided they knew how to celebrate the the traditional Latin Mass, were permitted to celebrate it without having to seek permission from their diocese. And, you know, they were following all the rubrics and all that stuff.
Speaker 1:Okay? They didn't have to seek permission, they didn't need a special reason, nothing like that. I thought that was great. I thought that was really really great. But here's something that people often forget or overlook or just didn't know.
Speaker 1:There is a caveat in there, in his modu proprio. The faithful cannot use the traditional Latin Mass as a rejection of
Speaker 2:the Council as a rejection of the Second Vatican Council, or as an explicit or implied statement that the new
Speaker 1:Mass is a lesser Mass or is an invalid Mass. In other words, you may use this Mass anywhere you want to use it. You can celebrate it if you know how to celebrate it, but, nine, you cannot use this Mass in rejection of the council Or as a statement implied or explicit that the Novus is not a valid mess? You can do the TLM, but not if it's a rejection if you're doing it in rejection of the Council, and not if you're doing it as a rejection of the Novus Ordo as an equally valid Mass. That was the condition there.
Speaker 1:Pope Francis, I suspect, was aware that many in the traditional, in the traditional world of the church I'm so sorry, folks. I'm, like, doing the control room stuff, the engineering stuff. I'm doing a lot of stuff. I don't know. The audio is either too quiet or it's too hot, but it's it's right about where I think it should just be comfortable enough.
Speaker 1:I think Pope Francis identified that there was a problem, that people were using the traditional Latin Mass as a sort of church within the church, as a soft or intentional rejection of the Second Vatican Council, or a rejection of the traditional of the ordinary form slash Novus Ordo Mass. And for their spiritual well-being and the well-being of the unity of the church, he restricted it throughout the church. He basically effectively reversed Benedict the sixteenth's modu proprio. Thank you, and Victor saying in the in Instagram saying it sounds fine. Okay.
Speaker 1:Thank you. I appreciate that. Thank you very, very much. I really do appreciate that. I'm not just being courteous.
Speaker 1:Thank you, brother. And hello to Christian Gebert joining me here at home base at Substack. If you don't know, you ought to know. You got the right one, baby. When you join me here on Substack, hello, KM.
Speaker 1:Jessic. Jessic. Something like that. Just joining me here at Substack as well. So here's what I think.
Speaker 1:I do believe, I strongly believe, that someone, I'm not saying it
Speaker 2:was Pope Leo, but it might have been, but I think someone poked and
Speaker 1:prodded Cardinal Burke and said, Listen, if this Mass is set free again, it's going to look like Pope Leo is stomping all over Pope Francis', I don't know, quality as a leader, his judgment, I don't know. It's just going to look it might make Pope Francis look bad. But
Speaker 2:if Pope Leo the fourteenth responds to a valid petition from a cardinal, then it doesn't look bad. Then it'll
Speaker 1:look it'll just look like the pope is positively reacting to a petition from a cardinal. Not just taking it on himself to just reverse Pope Francis' decision, he's responding to a cardinal. Maybe to many cardinals. Maybe this is this is going to come from other cardinals and bishops as well. I very strongly believe that is what's happening.
Speaker 1:Don't take my word for it. It's my opinion. And it's my opinion based on my sadly very thorough knowledge of church politics. Very thorough know. I wish I did not I wish I did not know church politics as well as I do.
Speaker 1:Unfortunately, I do. And that's what I think is happening. I also believe it would be a good thing for the traditional Latin Mass to be set free. However, there really is a problem in the church. There's a problem with what many, not all, many.
Speaker 1:And folks, if you want to know how deep the problem is, look for the comments to this episode. You hear me saying many, not all? You watch how many people are hostile to the fact that I'm saying this at all, and then you're gonna see how deep the problem goes. Many not all traditionalists are abusing the traditional Latin Mass. They're turning it into a subculture of the church.
Speaker 1:That problem is real. It is broad. It is deep. And that problem, regardless of the disposition of the TLM going forward, that problem needs to be addressed. How do you do that?
Speaker 1:Through catechesis, through an appeal, Through mission? I really don't know. But it needs to be addressed because,
Speaker 2:and frankly, I think the depth of the problem,
Speaker 1:the true depth of the problem has been more exposed since the TLM was restricted. I really, really believe that. I see it every day. I saw it just yesterday, and I'm not going to give voice to
Speaker 2:what I saw. Because I don't
Speaker 1:want to embarrass people. Mean, there's nobody here, but it it was from someone from a commenter on one of my socials. But I get those sorts of comments all the time, but still I don't wanna name names or anything. I don't wanna embarrass anybody. Plus it wasn't hostile or or or anything like that or contentious.
Speaker 1:Hello to Peaceful Crusader. God bless you Peaceful Crusader joining me here on Instagram. I thank you very much for joining me. Peaceful Crusader. What a cool and interesting name.
Speaker 1:I love the logo too. Very, very cool and interesting name. Peaceful Crusader. I think I remember looking at your profile once actually there, Peaceful Crusader. I think I liked it.
Speaker 1:Think I followed you back. So that's what I think is going on. I hope the traditional Latin Mass is set free. I don't you know, there are people who go to the TLM for good reasons, important reasons, for reasons of their spiritual health in some cases, because some people need what the TLM offers. I don't, but some people need that.
Speaker 1:And I remember, I'll share a very personal story with you. It's not very personal, but it is a personal story. One time I went to I won't say where it was, but it was a church where there was a very notable priest who who happened to be the pastor there, and I didn't know that. I was just there by chance. And the mass was it was a Novus Ordo mass, and I was going through a rough patch at the time with my faith in my oh, boy, in my life.
Speaker 1:In my faith and in my life. And I was sort of on a on a rebound. You you all know this, folks. You've been through these these cycles. Right?
Speaker 1:I was sort of on a rebound. Okay? Where it's dark, and it's rough, and it's damn awful, and it's going on for a while. And I was on sort of a rebound where I was starting to feel like I was finally catching my breath. I wasn't there yet, but I was starting to feel like I
Speaker 2:was catching my breath. And I happened upon this church. I needed to
Speaker 1:go to mass, so I went to mass, and this notable priest was there. He was the the celebrant. And it was a it was it was the mass of my youth. Now, I grew up in the Novosordo mass, okay? You grew up in the Ordinary Four mass.
Speaker 1:It was the mass of my youth. In that, it was the smells, it was the bells, it was the celebrant and the servers took their time. You could just from their movement and how they did everything, everything was so well ordered and so well coordinated and they took their time, didn't rush. Very reverent in that. Okay?
Speaker 1:In in that way. It was it was just like I went back in time, and and everything was just so just so perfect in that liturgy. Just just so right. And I need I needed that mess so badly on that day.
Speaker 2:And on the way out,
Speaker 1:I said to him, you know how you go and everyone's shaking hands with the priest on their on their way out. That's a cute little Catholic cultural item that I think we take for granted. Take some time to really appreciate that little custom that we have. So on the way out, I shook his hand and I told him, father, thank you for reminding me why I love being Catholic. And that was it.
Speaker 1:There wasn't no long words. That was that that was all that I said.
Speaker 2:And then I left. And I meant it.
Speaker 1:During that period of my life, I
Speaker 2:needed that mass. I needed that. I needed the richness of what the Nova Sorter was when
Speaker 1:I was a kid. There was still chanting. There was plenty of incense. There was literally bells. There were real candles.
Speaker 1:Not that electronic crap. There was an army of altar servers, altar boys. There were no Eucharistic ministers, which to this day there is nothing you could ever tell me to get me to be okay with Extraordinary Ministers of Holy Communion. And if you are an extraordinary minister, God bless you. I'm not saying you're evil.
Speaker 1:I'm just saying I'm saying what the
Speaker 2:church is saying. Those should be extraordinary. You shouldn't be using them every week. If you're doing a daily Mass, and there's let's just just throw out a number.
Speaker 1:There's 20 people there, you don't need a Eucharistic minister. You don't need those to save time. There's 20 people there. What's the matter with you? When I was a kid, there was zero Eucharist zero Eucharistic ministers.
Speaker 1:Zero. None. We had three priests and a religious brother, a Jesuit, a good Jesuit. Why he was living at our parish, I don't know. I think he might have been retired there, because he was very old.
Speaker 1:Anyway, at communion time, a second priest or that religious brother, that Jesuit, would come out to help distribute communion,
Speaker 2:and that was it. There was no Eucharistic ministers. And there
Speaker 1:were only two priests in a packed, packed, super packed, enormous church when I grew up. Packed, packed, super packed two priests. That was it. You didn't have an army of all three Eucharistic ministers dishing out communion. Anyway, enough of that soapbox moment.
Speaker 1:The point is, it was a beautiful Mass, and it was a Mass that was so beautiful and I really needed. So I I appreciate that there are Catholics who need the traditional Latin Mass. They need that. However, my assertion is you shouldn't need that forever. At a point, you have to move on and ditch the crutches.
Speaker 1:And that's not a bad thing that they're crutches that I'm saying that they're crutches. That's not a
Speaker 2:bad thing. I needed a crutch too. At a couple
Speaker 1:of points in my life, I needed a crutch. And when we're young, or when we're less mature in the faith, some people are less mature in the faith than they're and they're, you know, 30 year old converts, you know? It has nothing to do with I'm not saying you're an immature person. But when you're young and or when you're immature in the faith or when you're broken, set back in the faith, right, you're injured, you know, you're set back, sometimes you need those crutches. They help you to get up, they help you to move forward, they help you to move on, but you have to move on.
Speaker 1:Because the beauty and the strength and the power of the Mass is not in those superficial things that we love so much. They are not valueless, but the beauty and strength and power of the Mass is not in them.
Speaker 2:It's in the reading of the Word of God, it's in
Speaker 1:the consecration of the Eucharist on the altar, and it's
Speaker 2:the reception of Holy Communion after it's consecrated. That is the power and strength of the mass. And at a point and
Speaker 1:I my friends, I'm speaking from experience here. Okay? This is not theory. If you're holding on to those quote unquote crutches, I'm sorry if that's a negative word, but I don't mean it that way, when you're holding onto the crutches, you cannot move forward. You cannot experience the full force of the power of
Speaker 2:the mass if you're relying on those crutches.
Speaker 1:And I gotta tell you, my friends, there's a lot of people relying on those crutches and and should not be. Should not be. Because they talk about the mass like the mass is their is the religion. The mass
Speaker 2:is not the religion. The mass is not
Speaker 1:the religion. Or they talk about the mass Folks, listen carefully. You'll hear it yourselves. This is it's not like it's written in code. They talk about the Mass as if it's self centered.
Speaker 1:What I need in the Mass, what I get from the Mass, my Mass, my Mass, my Mass, my Mass. I don't like the music, so it shouldn't be in the mass, and so on and so on. My friends, that's not what the mass is. The mass is not ordered inwardly. It's ordered outwardly.
Speaker 1:It's oriented to God. It is not the religion. It is the height of our religious expression, but it is not the religion. But many people who are relying on the mass as a crutch will talk about it like it's their religion. My brothers and sisters, you have
Speaker 2:to move on because God has so much waiting for you. But he needs you to get up and take it. And you can't get up and you
Speaker 1:can't move forward if you're holding on to
Speaker 2:those crutches. I don't know why I got on that high horse.
Speaker 1:I really don't. I don't even know I don't even know how I get from point a to point b when I do these damn broadcasts. I really don't know. But I thank you for your patience. Now I have no idea how many people are actually watching me on Instagram.
Speaker 1:Let's see. I'm gonna go over here because over here in this other window, I'll be able to see how many people I'm going to guess there's one person in there.
Speaker 2:I'm gonna guess. I'm gonna guess.
Speaker 1:Folks, what what's your guess? How many people are still watching on Instagram? What's your guess? Type in the oh, damn. I'm wrong.
Speaker 1:There's two. Hello, those two of you
Speaker 2:on Instagram.
Speaker 1:I don't know how many people are the funny thing about Substack is there's a little eyeball with a number next to it in my display window here on Substack, home base. Thank you very much. And right now that number is at nine. In past broadcasts, that number goes up to like twenty, thirty, 40, and I'm like, cow, there's 40 people in the chat room watching this broadcast. You know what I figured out?
Speaker 1:It's a it's the total number of people who have checked in and watched for more than a second. So I'm seeing nine. There's not nine people in here. Who's still here? I'm typing in the chat room on Substack.
Speaker 1:Who's still here? And hello to Yo Tocchino and Saint Hubert. That's about as much as that name as I can make out, Saint Hubert. Thank you for joining me. God bless you.
Speaker 1:I'm about to wrap this up and it's going to
Speaker 2:be made available on demand for you. Oh, that reminds me. See, I don't
Speaker 1:think anyone's left on Substack because I typed who's still here and nobody responded. Oh, well. Thank you to those of you on Instagram. Two of you or three of you still catching me. Little announcement I wanted to make.
Speaker 1:I've got a lot to say. I've got a lot of experience, so I have a
Speaker 2:lot to talk about. So you really ought to
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Speaker 2:me right now, by the way, like, really bad. Really, really bad. Really, really bad. I'm not gonna go
Speaker 1:through that whole story, but I'm I'm currently shadow banned on TikTok. I know that I am. And I tell people I was telling people in in just a recent live, let's say you're really into what I do, but you only get my stuff on Facebook or Instagram, wherever you
Speaker 2:get it. And tomorrow, that
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Speaker 1:of figuring out where can I find his stuff next? You have no way of figuring that out. Because the only channel you had to me was, let's just say, Facebook or Instagram, whatever. But on Substack, there's no such thing as shadow banning. And even if heaven and
Speaker 2:earth collapse and Substack cancels my account,
Speaker 1:I still have the subscriber list because the the publisher owns that. So I still have your emails. I can still take you to another email list provider and still send you an email. Here's where you can find me next. So check it out.
Speaker 1:Catholicadventurer.substack.com. Catholicadventurer.substack.com or check the link in my bio. And don't forget to check out the live sessions. There's only one there right now, but I'm a prolific podcaster, so there's not gonna be only one episode in there for very long. Hello to James and Jan Donovan just joined me here on Substack.
Speaker 1:They joined me actually a couple minutes ago, but I was in the middle of talking in a long sentence, I couldn't stop to say hello, and so hello I'm saying now, and thank you. Alright. So that's about gonna do it for me. We just for those of you just joining me, I was just talking about Cardinal, Burke, asking the Holy Father to loosen the restrictions on the traditional Latin Mass. I talked about what I think is really going on with that, and I talked about my thoughts on the whole situation.
Speaker 1:Okay? Now, this has been going on for about a half hour, maybe I'll maybe this will be episode two of of the live sessions. This has been going I expected to be doing this for like ten, fifteen minutes. I was just gonna throw it up on social media. But at this point, maybe I'll put it in the live sessions.
Speaker 1:I will also put it up on Instagram and TikTok, but I don't think anybody's gonna watch a half an hour anything on those platforms. If you would rather check this out on a proper podcast player that you can pause, rewind, fast forward, change the playback speed, play it in the background, and all that stuff, that's why I have a separate section for this for this podcast, the live sessions. K? You can check it out over at Substack. Alright, Gotta get out of here.
Speaker 1:It's getting close to bedtime. Big daddy needs his beauty sleep. You can tell that just by looking at me. Ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls, Catholics of all ages, I thank you very much for joining me tonight. Look for this on demand.
Speaker 1:I'll probably, may put it up on socials, like, right away. I I I don't know, but, you'll you'll see it someplace. Look for this on demand. Hello, Kaden. Thank you for joining me here on, Instagram.
Speaker 1:God bless you. Look for this because I think you're going to, enjoy it. Catholic Adventure signing out of here. God bless you. God be with you all.
Speaker 1:Have a good night, Instagram. Have a good night, Substack. God bless you. Bye bye. That's amazing.
Speaker 1:Just after that last goodbye, the song ends. I didn't even practice that. That's not even rehearsed. That's just that's just natural. I'm just I just got it like that.
Speaker 1:Holy cow. Something else. The hardest working man in all of Catholic podcasting. Yes, sir.
